![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
laurashapiro.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
vidding_livejournal_ark2If you're a vidder and plan to work with the Due South DVDs, or you work on a Mac and have questions about DVDxDV's more arcane settings, the following may be of interest. Otherwise, feel free to move on.
I made a test DVD including six versions of the action-packed climax of "A Cop, a Mountie, and a Baby" which I had clipped using DVDxDV, changing the settings each time. Here's what I found out:
Lower field dominant - this is the default setting for most DVDs. As before, playback was jerky, especially during motion (not even particularly fast or hectic motion)
Upper field dominant - this was my second test the other day. On direct comparison, I find playback even more jerky at this setting. This suggests to me that lower field dominance is the correct setting for these DVDs (as with most others), and that there's something else to do with the way these DVDs were encoded which is the problem.
Original field order - The same as lower field dominant.
Deinterlaced, upper field dominant; deinterlaced, lower field dominant; deinterlaced, original field order - all three of these were identical. No more jerkiness. Instead, blockiness. Pixelization occurred in big ugly chunks at any point where there was fast or energetic movement. On balance, these were more watchable than any of the other settings, but still not an acceptable situation.
At this point, I seem to have two options:
1) Download MPEG StreamClip and poke away blindly at its settings, or
2) Accept a generation of quality loss and use my capture device to pull clips in through the DVD player.
I'm leaning heavily towards #2, on account of I am *tired* of this.
Any further suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.
I made a test DVD including six versions of the action-packed climax of "A Cop, a Mountie, and a Baby" which I had clipped using DVDxDV, changing the settings each time. Here's what I found out:
Lower field dominant - this is the default setting for most DVDs. As before, playback was jerky, especially during motion (not even particularly fast or hectic motion)
Upper field dominant - this was my second test the other day. On direct comparison, I find playback even more jerky at this setting. This suggests to me that lower field dominance is the correct setting for these DVDs (as with most others), and that there's something else to do with the way these DVDs were encoded which is the problem.
Original field order - The same as lower field dominant.
Deinterlaced, upper field dominant; deinterlaced, lower field dominant; deinterlaced, original field order - all three of these were identical. No more jerkiness. Instead, blockiness. Pixelization occurred in big ugly chunks at any point where there was fast or energetic movement. On balance, these were more watchable than any of the other settings, but still not an acceptable situation.
At this point, I seem to have two options:
1) Download MPEG StreamClip and poke away blindly at its settings, or
2) Accept a generation of quality loss and use my capture device to pull clips in through the DVD player.
I'm leaning heavily towards #2, on account of I am *tired* of this.
Any further suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 09:33 am (UTC)It's not terrible, it's just not as clear.
Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 10:05 am (UTC)If you don't mind, I'd love to be kept apprised of what happens when you get to the DVD burning/testing stage. If you find a solution, I'll be at your feet. (:
Also: can't wait to see DS vids by Barkley!
Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 10:38 am (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 10:50 am (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 11:09 am (UTC)I know I have a bookmark for another forum at home that has a thread devoted to it. (3ivx maybe.) I had mm2d too, but that didn't work as well for me as mm2c did. (And as a warning, you have to do a chapter at a time.)
Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 11:14 am (UTC)Oy, one chapter at a time? Wow.
One thing I saw on mm2c suggested that it was for Mac OS9. Is that the case? Will it work on OSX too?
Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 11:19 am (UTC)And I've been working on 10.2.8 with this.
Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 11:31 am (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 11:34 am (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 11:39 am (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 01:44 pm (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 01:54 pm (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 01:57 pm (UTC)Re: Hmm...
Date: 2004-10-12 02:01 pm (UTC)If you do have trouble with it, give me a holler and I'll tell you what I know.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 10:41 am (UTC)1. Rip with DVDBackup
2. Clip with MPEG Streamclip
3. Fiddle with FCE (not much fiddling, just a few dissolves and cuts)
4. Burn using IDVD.
I'll use the same action packed sequence?
This will be a good help for my Full of Grace re-master. Better to know upfront before clipping.
PS. More info on OSEx at:
http://www.quicktiming.org/tutorials/dvd.php
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 10:53 am (UTC)Note that on the above test, I didn't import any of the clipped files into FCP and work with them. I just burned them directly to a DVD. I didn't want to introduce any more variables.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 11:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 11:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 11:19 am (UTC)The less compression the better, is my motto.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 11:29 am (UTC)More research!
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 12:10 pm (UTC)I don't think this is a terrible option. Technically, it may be a loss of quality, but I think it's a pretty negligible difference.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 01:56 pm (UTC)Good to know that you don't think it makes much difference!
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 09:33 pm (UTC)FWIW, I've *always* been a source quality bee-yotch. *g*
If you think about it, though, ripping is still a relatively new way of creating clips, because DVD source wasn't always available. We've been considering ripping, but until we do, we're happy with the quality we get from capturing with Canopus.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 10:06 pm (UTC)Stands to reason. The "JKL" group have always been among the cleanest of vidders (see Lum and me for theories on "clean" vs. "messy" vidding). I mean that in the best possible way! *g*
I expect much of this weekend will be me fiddling with my converter box, with which I have not captured since I learned about this whole ripping thing.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 10:23 pm (UTC)Thanks. You'll definitely have to fill me in on your theories! :)
I expect much of this weekend will be me fiddling with my converter box, with which I have not captured since I learned about this whole ripping thing.
Good luck! After all the time and effort you put into remastering, only to be frustrated by the crappy quality, it sounds like capturing may be the best solution, at least for now. *sends good vidding vibes*
no subject
Date: 2004-10-13 10:05 am (UTC)Thanks for all the good vibes and support. ::straightens helmet:: Cover me. I'm going in.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-13 02:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-12 11:16 pm (UTC)Using DVDxDV I was able to recreate Laura's problem - and Laura it didn't matter whether I used the std FPC or the DVDxDV Expert settings. Or whether I pulled the clip into Final Cut or had it burned direct onto DVD. Stuttering frames and green pixels. Plus audio out of synch (on one file).
I achieved much better results (no stuttering /no green pixels/audio in synch) using MPEG StreamClip. I got slightly better results (only a vidder could tell) exporting to DV rather than a Quicktime movie + DV codec. (Final Cut Pro/Express can handle DV and QT mov).
Here were my settings within MPEG Streamclip:
Export to DV
Select NTSC, Full size (720x480)
Codec DVCPro50, 29.97 fps
Deinterlace box checked.
Best. News. Ever.
Date: 2004-10-13 10:06 am (UTC)Thanks so much for sharing your results! I'm glad your remastering process will be smoother than mine. (:
But one question...
Date: 2004-10-13 10:07 am (UTC)Re: But one question...
Date: 2004-10-13 10:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-10-16 11:55 am (UTC)Unfortunately, my test DVD still looked jerky to me. It wasn't anything like as bad as it had been before -- most of the sequence looked fine. But when very fast motion started up, it looked like there was a slight hesitation, as though every other frame might be slightly frozen. Paul noticed it, too, so it's not just a vidder's eyes. Would having the deinterlace box checked account for this?
Anyway, I'm now resigned to capturing, assuming my box plays nice. Oh well.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-16 12:21 pm (UTC)Your jerkiness may have to do with other factors: what software you use to encode for the DVD or your ripping software. How much hard drive space/fragmented your drive is (I had one series of vids encode poorly over a 2 fire wire drive distance. Moved the file I was encoding to the internal hard drive and then defragged and the problem went away.
I used: DVD Backup 1.2 to rip
IDVD 2 to encode to MPEG-2 and then burn.
The "loss" of capturing externally is hardly noticeable so if you have a capture device, that might be the way to go. Rather than looking at the endless series of digital possibilities.
no subject
Date: 2004-10-16 12:24 pm (UTC)This right here? ::points up:: This is exactly where I am right now. (:
FWIW: 29GB free space, MacTheRipper to rip, iDVD 4 to burn. I didn't encode to MPEG-2 first, I just used the clipped DV file straight from MPEG Streamclip.
Off to set up my capture box...
no subject
Date: 2004-10-16 12:34 pm (UTC)re: MPEG-2 encoding. that is is what IDVD does. You grab you edited vid DV/mov file from FCP (or in the case of our test, the pure DV file exported from MPEG Streamclip) and pull it into IDVD. It then encodes it for you to MPEG-2 and burns. Its encoding is supposed to be less rigorous than DVD Studio Pro - which I still cannot get to work on my computer (we can chat about *this* problem offline)
So, yes, capturing good.....