Vidding, the creative process

[colls]

So, I'm a relative newcomer to vidding and have been vidding for approximately one year. In that time, I've gone through a lot of experimentation and hair-pulling, but feel like I've finally got a relatively good handle on the how-to's, at least technically speaking.

With each new vid, I end up going about the creative and editing aspects a bit differently, usually letting the theme, material or (in most cases) the song dictate the starting points. This has had varied results and there's more than one vid that should've been scrapped. It seems I've rarely used the same method twice, but I'm beginning to suspect a theme (at least in my own vidding).

TANGENT:*
A couple months ago I participated in festivids and kinda stumbled through it. It wasn't my first vid-exchange or vid-challenge, but it was unique. After I had committed, I began to see what a wealth of talented and long-time vidders we had in that comm and I have to admit to being somewhat intimidated, which mentally froze me for a short time. Vidders, of course, are such a lovely bunch of people that it was all for naught - it was such an amazing experience and I had such a wonderful time!! The experience has made me look deeper into the world of vidding, seeing it beyond a mere fannish delight and as an outlet for creative transformative storytelling.

But I digress. My point in bringing up the experience was that it was going to be the first time I had to a) make a vid for a stranger, b) in a fandom I'd not vidded in before, c) with a character request that I didn't dislike, but had no strong feelings towards. After agonizing over it for several days, I scrapped all my initial ideas and just focused on finding a song to fit the general material. Then it happened in the car, I heard THE song and viola! I got a vid (or at least, several scenes mapped out in my head before I reached home). This was the first time this step of the process was in any way difficult. What I seem to struggle with is the next step.

The arduous clipping process, composing my scenes and finally editing the vid. Well, duh. This is the blood, sweat and tears part of vidding. I get that. :D It's just that I seem to be so terribly disorganized about it.
*sorry for the tangent, but it's kinda what has prompted this post :)


Somewhat like fanfic writers, I'm assuming that vidders have wildly different approaches to the creative process of vidding. In all my browsing of meta and random posts made by vidders I admire and by vidders I've never heard of, I'm sure I've only touched the surface (yes, I lurk).

1) So, how do you get your perfect song and vid idea from inside your head and onto our screens? Like me, do you have vague visions of it in your head and simply dive into clipping and editing? Or do you have a more methodical approach?

2) I've noticed my best vids (personal favorites, at least) are ones in which I had a more complete scene-to-song ratio in my head before I even began clipping. So, a process I'm thinking of trying on my next vid is using a storyboard, in hopes that I will never again attempt an entire vid because I had a vision of one scene from one show for one phrase... Anyway, have you ever used storyboards? Any advice? Yay? Nay?

3) What serious ideas (versus the random one you have listening to muzak in the elevator - admit it, we all have these) have you had for vids that you either couldn't complete or wouldn't come out as expected? What made the execution of your idea different than what you had envisioned?

4) I think one of my biggest weaknesses in vidding is impatience. Something I hope storyboarding may help me with. What are yours? How have you dealt with them?

5) Vidding beta? Apparently in the fanfic world, it's taboo not to have a beta. What are your thoughts about beta'ing in vidding?



I realize some discussion may differ slightly based on the tools a vidder uses, but I think the creative process itself obviously transcends the technology we use to make it happen.

Comments

[china_shop]

I'm even newer to vidding than you are, and I don't really have a process yet, but I'll give this a shot. :-)

1. I either dive straight in, or I print out the lyrics and write all over them. It seems like the latter should work better, but I'm not actually sure that one approach is more successful than the other.

Some vids come together in a day or two and then just need tweaking; others take weeks and drafts and hair-tearing. How I feel about them is influenced by how sick I am of looking at them, so I'm not sure which my best are, but I can see definite (if not entirely linear) improvement since I started, which is encouraging.

Things I mean to pay attention to before I open Sony Vegas: what am I trying to say, a sense of narrative and structure, point of view (my personal nemesis), and where the important emotional beats in the song are. But most times I don't really know how it's going to come out until I get started.

2. See above re printing out the lyrics. :-) I think it's useful for me to at least think about what might go where before I get started, even if I don't write it down.

3. I have a habit of wanting to make vids about secondary characters, which often means there's not much footage and/or the POV feels weird. Still working through that, but one of my plans is to try incorporating other sources.

4. Heh. Probably my biggest weakness is lack of specificity: I'm not very good at pinning down what it is I'm trying to say, so I handwave/gloss over/hope that the viewer will read into it, and it usually shows. This is partly impatience and partly lack of confidence. Something I really need to work on, though.

5. I have learned a huge amount from the betas I've had, so personally, I think the more beta, the better. That's how I improve and learn the grammar and conventions of vidding, find out what works and what really doesn't. Otoh, sometimes I'm just making the equivalent of commentfic and it doesn't seem worth bothering anyone else with it. So for me, there's a mix. But in general, I lean towards beta. I'd much rather know if something works before I post it, than after. :-)

[colls]

I always seem to start with the lyrics as well, keeping them open in one window while I have the song playing and I'm searching for clips. Helps keep my mind on what types of scenes I'm looking for (angst, drama, laughter, etc).

RE: secondary characters - I understand completely! I've made 2 vids pairing people who had something like 30 seconds of screentime together. *headdesk* why do we do this? :)

RE: specificity - I've struggled with this a couple of times, too. I've been known to be so set on a character and song that I ignore story all together. I hope I've began getting better at this. I think my impatience contributes to this and my whole "diving in" approach.

I think I'll look into a beta for my next work. Thanks for all your great commentary!

[(Anonymous)]

Hi there,

Sorry for the fail, but I completely forgot to say "Thank You" the other day for pointing me in the right direction with regards to linking to BVV. For some reason I thought the codes only work for youtube and photobucket. I don't normally use streaming vids so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details....

Vid talk, ehh? Let me see...
1)My ideas normally start from an emotional/psychological view point trying to link a person's experiences to his/her emotional state and to his/her action's. My ideas are not really visual or based on music but just around that emotional arc or psychological development I want to get across. Once I've got a song I start working on a concept including use of colour, effects, internal/external movement, symbols, relationships etc. Than I start the clipping process and "harvest" all the clips that fit with the concept or support the emotional journey I want ot depict. Once I've got the clips I start some rough storyboarding but the main work happens on the timeline. Or I just grab a pump-up song and throw some random clips on the timeline.....*blush*

2) I think it depends very much on personal style. I love to work with a storyboard (even though the end product rarely resembles the initial layout) because it makes me think about what I want to say with the vid and organize my ideas. Once I start the editing I only use the storyboard for ideas rather than following it religiously. Sooner or later the vid develops it's own life and it all falls into place. Having said that, I take a long time to vid and let the idea stew and hibernate at different stages before going back to it, so this isn't an approach for people who are impatient.

3) So far I don't think I have managed to make a coherent, powerful visual argument in the way that I wanted to. I think people do get the general gist of the idea that I am trying to put across. I am actually much more in awe of non-dramatic vids. I think there are few things as hard as doing comedy or action WELL.

4) My biggest weakness is getting bedazzled by my (Sony Vegas'es) mad technical abilities and losing sight of the bigger picture. But that's what I've got my beta for, she'll question my motives for every single effect, transition, zoom or whatever else I've done to the clips and won't let it get passed unless it adds something to the argument. Unfortunately I don't always listen to her.....

5) I find a beta useful, because after watching my vid hundreds of times and sitting over it for months I kinds of lose perspective a bit, so a fresh pair of eyes (and a fresh brain) are really valuable. Having said that, I vid foremost for fun and for myself. Sometimes I decide to leave things as they are, because I like the look or because it was technically difficult to do, or because I just love it that way. But I find generally having a beta increases my discipline (because I have to argue my case for the use of a particular clip or effect or artistic choice) and keeps me from becoming too self-indulgent. It's like many film directors say, the best scenes often end up on the floor because they didn't move the story forward....but without somebody else pointing it out to me I just wouldn't let go of my "best scenes"...

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

Arrrgh! And again with the fail,

LJ keeps kicking me out....

[colls]

:) - back when I was a non-vidder, I didn't like to download vids and only watched the ones I could stream - go figure.

I suspect if I do attempt to storyboard that it will be more of a practice in helping me gather my thoughts rather than something I would follow religiously. So your approach there sounds like what I have in mind.

I think you make a good argument for the use of a beta. I think I'll go that route with whatever my next project ends up being. I'm sure that a good beta could offer advice and have a critical eye on a project regardless of the genre, but how important is it do you think for the beta to know the fandom?

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

I don't think there is a straight answer to that one. It depends a bit on who you vid for and what kind of story you want to tell. If you specifically vid for people who know the fandom and expect the viewer to join up the dots by themselves based on their knowledge of the show than you need a beta who also knows the show well. If you want your vid to be accessible to anybody than it actually can be helpful to get some beta advise from somebody who doesn't know the source (e.g. they can tell you whether the narrative is clear and makes sense just based on the way you used the clips and lyrics). I am currently working on an episodic vid with a strong narrative structure and therefore am looking for somebody who doesn't know the show (or at least the episode) to give feedback on whether the narrative holds.

It also depends on what kind of beta'ing you have in mind. Do you "just" want your beta to tell you which bits don't work out well, or do you want them to actually make suggestions etc. I find it useful if I can ask my beta where I can find a clip of character X doing Y, or where to find a certain shot or clip with a certain feel etc.

For me the most important thing is that my beta at least shares to certain degree my taste in vids (e.g. what's good - what's bad - what's boring), has an eye for colour, movement and visual style and that (s)he can communicate his thoughts and impressions clearly.

Another thing to consider is whether you want somebody with a strong vidding/editing background who can point you in the direction of specific effects/plug-in's etc. My beta is more a watcher and just has a smattering of understanding of the editing process (but knows everything and then some about photoshop) so I sometimes have to go to a tech forum to get advise.

As a starting point I think it is helpful to have a beta you know well and trust, so that each party can be frank and open and it doesn't lead to conflict. Otherwise you might end up with somebody who just gives you squee and no concrit at all for fear of upsetting you, and that's no help either.

[bookaddict43.livejournal.com]

You've come a long way in a year! Although I've only made the two vids, I'm always browsing and wanting to make more.

1. A storyboard sounds like an awesome idea, and at least you would have some idea where you're going. Even if you go somewhere else in the end.

3. I want to make a Wash vid to 'Leaf on the wind' by the Bedlam Bards. I can see bits of the story in my head, but just can't get the clips right. :(

5. I could see why a beta would be a good idea. They could look at your vid with a fresh eye. If I ever make another vid (I've got several in mind), I was thinking of asking you actually! :D

[colls]

I absolutely think you should do 'Leaf on the Wind'. I started look at that (I think you gave me the idea) for the serenity_santa pinch hit and simply ran out of steam because I had so many holiday exchange vids at the time.

If you don't think you have enough material, you can always trim the song - it actually goes on and on a bit at the end there anyway, so just fade it out and chop off a good bit. Also, shots of Serenity would fit well with the theme, too.

And I will totally beta a vid for you anytime, hon! I would be honored. :)

[polly1esther.livejournal.com]

Hello, I'm a total vidding n00b, I've only vidded about half a year and have only a little over dozen vids to my name. That said, I'm intrigued by the process itself and I absolutely love to read and talk about it.

1) With me, the beginning of the process can go two ways: either I hear the perfect song that just fills my head with possible scenes or I have a basic idea/premise for which I try to find the perfect song or melody to. Which leads to point two and three.

2-3) I have a storyboard for each and every one of my projects if by storyboard you mean copy-pasting the lyrics and writing down which scenes go to which lines. There was one video where I actually had to make a slide-show because I had only a certain amount of beats to try to tell even remotely coherent story, and I needed to actually see it to make sense of it. Also, the ideas for different vids have a bad habit of coming to me all at once so I absolutely need to write stuff down to keep things in order. What's funny/frustrating is that the vids rarely looks like I first envisioned them to be and the "plots" can dramatically change in the middle of the process which has taught me to be less rigid about the storyboard thing and trust more my gut feeling. Why the storyboarding doesn't always work for me is that in the clips, the characters might be doing the thing that would fit the lyrics but the emotional tone is all wrong. Aaand, since I do mostly AU videos, I can throw logic and context out of the window. ;P

4) My weakness is my inability to let go of some idea or clip I have set my mind to, no matter how lame it is - even if doing so would make my vids that much better. Gah!

5) I think a beta would be crucial to make the vids better but since I mostly ship and vid for, shall we say... an unorthodox couple, I'm really shy asking anyone to help. I'm enough sensitive about the vidding process as it is, so to have someone say "Ew, gross, you ship those two!" would probably put me off from vidding forever. ;)

[colls]

I think I've sort of used the same process, only it's all been mental. I'm going to give a shot of actually mapping it out on a grid. And, there's nothing worse that knowing what scene you want to use and then find that it's all talky-face, the wrong angle or in some other way unusable.

I have a hard time letting go sometimes, too. In my last vid, I put a little in-joke in there and one of my friends mentioned the transition timing was good but that it was obviously cut from the same scene - yes. In-joke. Sad is that it's an in-joke with only 2 people. *whatever* LOL! I refused to let go of it because it made me smile and at the end of the day I really vid for myself.

Anyway, I also know the pitfalls of shipping an unorthodox pairing. For my rare-OTP, I've made the only 2 vids in exsistence. :) I think I've been in the same boat as you as to being sensitive and unsure of asking anyone to look at my vid. However, I'm beginning to think it's really the best way to improve and get any actual constructive feedback. Perhaps asking someone who doesn't know the fandom at all? That way they wouldn't be squicked by the pairing (in theory) but would just be looking at your vid on its own merits - also being AU, this would mean they wouldn't have any preconceived ideas about the characters or remember which scene clips were from, etc.

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

Interesting thoughts! I have done a combination of vague idea and storyboard. It possibly mimics my writing process, in which I have very clear ideas about certain parts, and hope that the other parts become clear as I work between them.

As far as vid betas go, the vids I have made have been immeasurably improved by my betas. I learn a lot from them and from the process.

[colls]

I have very clear ideas about certain parts, and hope that the other parts become clear as I work between them

This exactly describes most of my projects. :)

[deird1]

I dive straight in!

I generally have some ideas in my head (along the lines of "when then music does that dippy thing, I'm going to have a shot of Buffy turning around and looking at Willow, from whichever episode that was"), but I mostly end up starting, and seeing what happens...

[colls]

There are times when this is the most fun approach - and I kinda like to see where it all takes me, usually ending up with something looking very different than I envisioned (not always a bad thing).

[icepixie]

I too am new to vidding (3 months/4 vids), but I've developed a process heavy on storyboarding that works for me. (I am, I admit, painfully organized.) I've been trying to just dive in with my latest project, and it's not working AT ALL.

1-2. A vid that I actually make always begins with the song rather than the concept. It tends to start as either, "hey, those lyrics and this style of music are perfect for this film/relationship/character," or, "this clip would look AWESOME paired with this piece of the music." Then I listen to the song obsessively for a while (weeks, usually), contemplating what other clips would work at various points, but not necessarily writing anything down.

When I feel like I have enough of a picture in my mind of what the vid should look like, I copy out the lyrics into an Excel file, as well as a short description of any instrumental interludes ("guitar, eight measures of four, repeated once," "tinkly piano for a measure," etc.). Then in the next column, I put down what clip(s) should go there. I also have a column where I put the timestamp of each line/instrumental bit ("1:42-1:46"), mostly so I can keep in mind how long of a clip(s) I'll need there. (It's also a good way to really get to know the song.)

I tend to fill out three quarters of the sheet over a week or so, just adding to it as I listen to the song over and over again. I don't necessarily go front to back, but the beginning has tended to fill up first in all the ones I've done. Then I dive into iMovie and start putting together what I have on the spreadsheet. As I work, I wind up swapping things out and making changes, which I update on the spreadsheet 'cause I'm a nerd I want to see everything in writing at a glance. The bits I don't have storyboarded tend to get filled in along the way, as what's going on in the rest of the vid sparks new ideas and connections.

3. I haven't vidded long enough to hit this point. I usually vet a song/idea pretty thoroughly before it gets to the storyboard stage. (Though this latest project may well be the first that doesn't get done! I've got about a tenth of it storyboarded, and I've been trying to put together what I've got in iMovie, and it's just a mess. I'm not sure at this point if it's the process or the idea.)

4. I think my biggest weakness may be that I get really caught up in having video match the beat, to the point where I forget that I also want to tell a story through screen language (sometimes). I, uh, haven't really dealt with it, 'cause really good timing is pretty much paramount to me. It's something I should work on, though.

5. I probably should have a beta(s), but I don't. I don't always have a fanfic beta, because I write in so many different fandoms that I'd need a slew of them, and I just don't know that many people. (Especially for fandoms where I'm the only writer. Yeah.) Also...okay, this is kind of odd, and goes with number four. While I don't write fic for other people, as I write I'm always conscious of the fact that other people will (hopefully!) read it, so often getting a beta for a fic is predicated on that feeling that the fic will be my emissary in the online world. When I vid, I feel much more like I'm doing it for ME--I want to see that cut match the beat exactly, or that movement reflect the melody, or whatever, and that's all I'm thinking. If, once I post it, other people like it, that's great, but I don't really think about that as I vid, and consequently I feel less like it needs a beta; it satisfies me, and that's all that matters.

[colls]

Your storyboarding methods sound very close to what I was thinking of attempting! Thanks for outlining your process, you sound so organized (Hee!). I also tend to do a lot of listening/mental-mapping before I start, too. In my last vid, I kinda dived in not really having a lot of specific scenes in mind. It ended up better on the 2nd pass than the first, but it was a fast paced one, and those are easier for me to roll along with for some reason.

Re: #4, I think this is where I'd like to see if I can expand on my next project. I'm tempted to attempt an instrumental vid - just for the challenge. I think it would force me to tell a story musically and with images/scenes not relying on lyrics to push it along.

And re: #5 - I rather feel the same way in most cases (although I post my vids - so I suppose I don't do i wholly for myself - LOL), and have personally never used a beta for a vid before. I may try, though, as I know it helps improve writing, I'm hoping it'll do the same for me in vidding. :)

[icepixie]

Thanks for outlining your process, you sound so organized (Hee!).

Heh. As a final-semester grad student, the least little thing getting out of order would lead to the entire house of cards that is my life crumbling. It's kind of bled over into my online life. :D

I like the idea of diving in--when I write, I alternate between outlining and freewriting depending on the project, and there's a definite difference in the final product; stuff I could never have outlined shows up in less structured writing. However, it's not working well for vidding at the moment...then again, the bigger problem may be that I'm trying to combine, at last count, twelve movies into one vid, and I don't have all of them ripped yet (and haven't seen some of them in years anyway). I think I need to just put it aside until after graduation, watch/rip all my source movies, and start over with the storyboard.

I love watching instrumental vids, and would like to try one someday. I agree, it does seem to force people to tell a story with images rather than relying on lyrics to carry clips that might not work toward the storytelling goal on their own.

[icepixie]

Yeah, I think I'm going to have to abandon it for now. Maybe I'll try again when I have more time to just mess around in iMovie (although I think it may end up leading more to frustration than anything creative...I'll have to see).